Pick One
Ramblings September 19th. 2007, 10:09am“Which is it, is man one of God’s blunders or is God one of man’s?”
- Friedrich Nietzsche
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September 19th, 2007 at 11:46 am
it’s a bit of “chicken or egg” question isn’t it?
November 5th, 2007 at 9:46 am
Well I dont really enjoy answering this question but I will give my input on it. Alot of humanists/atheists like to say that man “invented” God as a stress release tool or a way out of problems in their everyday life, because they just couldnt handle it anymore and felt like they needed a fall back. However I would like to assert that from a xian standpoint we are not a blunder of God. We screwed ourselves up with that first sin in the garden.David
November 5th, 2007 at 10:08 pm
David, as the story goes, “we” did not exist when Adam did. The only one with us now who did (as the story goes) is god.
If anyone is to be held responsible, it is god … after all he *knew* what would come to pass … just as sure as I know what to expect if I hit my hand with a hammer.
Beyond that, none of us are responsible for the errors committed by our elders. We are only responsible for the errors we commit ourselves.
Regarding your generalization of Atheists, I’ve never known any to claim that god was invented as a release tool (I think that’s what Sunday Football is for).
However, I have know many who claim that man *created* god and that god (as represented by the religious authorities) is man’s blunder … which is made aptly clear to me by those who claim that I’m accountable for the actions of the fabled Adam.
November 7th, 2007 at 11:36 am
Ben, you assert that the first sin was God’s fault because he knew it would happen. Allow me to explain what xians mean by “all knowing”. We dont mean that God knows everything that will happen so he lays out the earth to act in exact accordance with what he knows so that we all do exactly as he wants.
Because that voids out free will.
What we mean by all knowing is that God has an intimate knowlede of everything that can be known, which includes molonism(middle knowledge) or as I like to call it, the knowledge of what Could have happened. God didn’t give us free will just to map out the set play of history, he gave it to us so that we could make our own decisions, if we get into a situation then we have multiple ways out of it. Free will is God giving us the choice to pick our way to go in that situation.
Now saying that We are not responsible for the errors of our elders is true, However it does not mean the the errors of our elders do no directly or indirectly affect us. If your father makes bad buisiness decisions then you will grow up with less money that someone whose father made good decisions, This affects you but it is not your error directly. The same principal applies to Adam, we did not make the first sin however the effects of the first sin are passed down to us thru the decisions of our elders.
And to your statement of my generalization of Atheists I was not making a generalization I was simply saying that Many HUMANISTS/Atheists like to say that.David
November 7th, 2007 at 10:00 pm
David,
sigh … I find it particularly curious (actually humorous) that many monotheists are able to explain, in detail, *how* God thinks, acts, and behaves … humorous because it is impossible to *know* of the supernatural … much less *know* the mind of a supernatural being.
In any event, no one can possibly posses knowledge respecting that which is beyond the natural universe … certainly there is no reason to believe than you or anyone else is a better judge of the supernatural than I, or any other.
It is my view that since It is impossible to have such knowledge, such claims can be no more than imagination … imagination constrained in support human religious authorities and feigned logic.
Regarding your generalizations, you’ve missed my point. We are all individuals and are able to speak for ourselves. If you wish to quote some Humanists and/or atheists, fine. However, they are all *individuals* who only speak for themselves … not for any others. I see any attempt to group unconnected individuals under one banner respecting a singular purpose to be deceitful … and in your case the intent of that deceit appears to be the character assassination of large number of people who you appear to have little knowledge, and even less understanding, of.
Ben
November 8th, 2007 at 9:38 am
Ben,
I never said that I know the mind of God, I was simply saying what I have gleaned from reading the bible, Much in the same way that I would say that I have gleaned many things from reading “A brief History Of Time” and yet I would not say that I know the mind of Dr. Hawking. Now this doesn’t completely apply to God and the Bible but it has some relevance none the less. I also found it rather queer that you would accuse me of trying to
“attempt to group unconnected individuals under one banner respecting a singular purpose”
Considering that there are a large number of atheists coming together under the banner of the Scarlet A respecting a singular purpose of showing the world that there is no God, or freeing the world from religious brain washing.
Now saying that they only speak for themselves also strikes me as queer,Considering that when they speak they say that they speak the truth, which in actuality would be them speaking for the world.David
November 8th, 2007 at 7:45 pm
There’s a big difference between those two examples. One is testable and *known* while the other is not testable but claimed by individuals who seek influence, power, and wealth from those who believe their claims.
Not to be rude, but my point is that while you know the text in each book, and have knowledge of the author of one, but only imagine the other.
To be very clear, you have no knowledge of any god, but claim to be in possession of his words and to have an understanding of them.
sigh … you’re trying to argue against my point, but are actually reinforcing it
There is no “singular” purpose (which you admit to with the implied either/or example that followed). Each who displays the scarlet letter does it for their own reasons. It is a method of individual expression.
You’re generalizing again. Who is this “they”? … What are these “truth”s you claim they claim? … I realize you are comfortable with accepting into fact that which you imagine, but that is not to say that I or anyone should tolerate you accusing, in broad strokes, others of things your imagined acts.
If you wish to accuse individuals of specific acts, do so. Those statements can be verified or refuted. However, the sort of broad claims you’re making are colored with the shade of a bigotry. I seriously doubt that is the impression you intend … please give it some thought.
November 9th, 2007 at 8:09 pm
Back to the subject of the post…
Whose blunder is it?
The idea that we screwed ourselves up with original sin belies the contention that your god is benevolent. This is the kind of reasoning that will eventually lead us around in circles about free will, allegorical (mis)interpretation, and ultimately end up at some place like Pascal’s Wager.
Now, we can do this dance, but it’d be much shorter if we just come to the conclusion that David will believe the parts he likes, and rationalize and marginalize the parts he doesn’t, and will do so regardless of the hypocrisy involved.
The question that is the subject of the post was more rhetorical in nature, and meant to make you think rather than take it literally.
November 9th, 2007 at 8:30 pm
Man get’s credit for all the blunders … from our original sin to our final sin
In this David and I agree. We have free will and are responsible for actions.